Watch this video to see why Learn to Trade the Market trades nothing like they say they do. Their trades from the Million Dollar Trading Competition (and the results) are horrible – these are what you'd expect from a bad gambler – not a trader. Watch to find out why.
Meanwhile, I've share verified live trading results for 2017 which you can find here:
Now…how in the heck did AxiTrader think it was a good idea to have Learn to Trade the Market manage funds after this with such horrible risk management, using no stop losses or take profits, and having inverted risk to reward ratios? Inquiring minds want to know.
Wow, I have a lot of people making comments, then deleting them. And one person using two accounts to ask a similar question. Again – as per the video, if you aren’t going to post a comment in a positive/neutral tone with facts and evidence, and aren’t going to constructively contribute to the discussion, your comments will not be posted as it benefits nobody. The ‘attack the messenger’ approach simply won’t work here.
Lol – I’m not telling people what they should say. I’m only saying ‘hey, if you can’t be an adult and talk constructively about this, then you have no business in this discussion.’
It doesn’t benefit anyone.
Just like you don’t let people come into your house and talk the way they want, regardless of how disrespectful it is to you.
But if they talk to you like an adult, regardless of whether they disagree with you, I’m guessing you’d let them speak.
Same applies here.
His total profit was 18,513, but when we look at all the trades you show is, there’s no way it adds up to even close to that amount. I’m totally confused by this.
Also, you said yourself that he moves his take profit when he wants to get out of a trade. SO wouldn’t that explain the apparent negative risk reward ratios?
I don’t see what the confusion is. We went over all the same trades in the fxblue link. There are no other trades and it all adds up.
RE: Moving Take Profit
No, not by itself. There were many trades where he never moved the TP, and it was negative at the outset. Hence there were many trades Nial Fuller was entering with a stop loss larger than the take profit, so completely horrible risk management.
doh I was looking at pips thinking it was dollars! Silly me. Anyway, I doubt this reflects how he usually trades. I suspect he was trading especially aggressively just for the competition, knowing that he could also blow up his account.
Still, it’s pretty hard to fluke a 300%+ return in 6 weeks, so there has to be a fair bit of skill involved. But yeah it was a publicity stunt on his behalf as there is no way he could make those kind of returns using the method he teaches.
You see this kind of trading on the public forex forum FF. It is almost desperation type trading hoping for a positive result.
I’d have to agree spazoid. Looking at the trades, opening/closing times, adjusting SL’s/TP’s, etc. it appears that way.
Nial teaches mostly for people who do not have time to do day-trading, but at the same time are not restricted by time limit. I mean his students can trade for years an nobody will say time is over.
Here Nial had 6 weeks to win competition. He could not wait for quality pinbars etc.
If he was waiting he would have nice low draw-down and maybe 10% return. That would be in line with his teaching but did not let him win.
You are right, he was gambling. It is like in multi-table poker tournament – sometimes you need to go all in to get to final table.
What you’re saying makes no sense. And if he wasn’t ‘waiting for quality pin bars’, then he lied about it by saying ‘These are the exact same strategies I teach’. Plain and simple. Either he lied about it, or they are the exact same strategies.
And he also lied about ‘I’m not a day trading’, and ‘only traded a handful of times in this competition’. Again – plain and simple.
And Nial didn’t have ‘6 weeks to win the competition’ as he had many more weeks left, yet stopped early. So again, what your saying doesn’t make sense.
Also, you cannot state with any evidence ‘if he was waiting, he would have nice low draw down and maybe 10% return’. As stated in the video, if you’re going to make a comment/critique, you’ll have to back this with facts. There are none to support this statement.
heh, sounds like my trading style before I joined the course. A style that’s very stressful and risky, and definitely not professional… Now doing the 108 Set and Forget trading and feeling like a cow on ice, but at least being patient.
Hola Mike – ‘cow on ice’? nice…haven’t heard that one.
Yeah, being patient reinforces the right things for your trading mindset. It helps you focus on process and not immediate result which is a the right track long term and what you’ll need to make it as a trader.
So keep at it amigo.
Very surprised that AxiTrader actually approved funds for such trading history. In a suitable market it’s not even that difficult to accomplish that % gain in 6 weeks, personally had similar gains in much shorter periods multiple times live and demo..but there is no point because the end result has high chance of havoc, and exactly feeling like a ” trader on crack” – pressured, stressed, and desperate for more
Indeed – in some sense, Axi was bound by their agreement. Yet…it’s short sided IMO. Any trading competition by a broker is simply to increase revenue/traffic/interest. Yet paying out 1M to any trader who trades recklessly to win is shortsighted IMO.
Hi Mike. I am no longer surprised that AxiTrader approved this. I personally feel it was a very subtle market maker for AxiTrader. AxiTrader ‘own’ Nial Fuller…..he is contracted to them to bring in revenue for them, and as a reward, he receives 25-50% commission from every account opened with AxiTrader. He has to keep that going in order to keep his own revenue flowing, so as people blow up their accounts and either top up or give up, other unsuspecting new student traders credit their accounts with Axi, via LTTM website, and the cycle begins all over again. It was in Nial’s own interests to trade the way he did. Basically he is saying “Hey Dudes, you too can trade just like me – ignore my course material that’s just for losers – but copy this style instead, and you can become a millionnaire in just 6 weeks.” He is using a sick mind game.
maybe what is professional trading is not what we all think it is 🙂
To me, anything that increases the risk of losing is not professional 🙂
In other words anything with a negative statistical expectancy is no good 🙂
Well said indeed.
All of us that entered that Axitrader competition, tailored our trading style around the prevailing market conditions at that time, and took into consideration the competition timescale.
(MR) 3rd place in competition
While that may be true, you didn’t lie about saying ‘I used sophisticated $ mgmt – Nial Fuller did. You didn’t lie and say ‘I’m not a day trader’ – Nial Fuller did. You didn’t lie and say ‘I only traded a handful of times’ when in actuality you traded 35 times, and state ‘these are the exact same strategies I teach’ when in fact nothing about your teaching would create a trading style like this. So a big difference IMO.
Wish i had had this info seven years ago
Metta to you 😀
Hello Tokolosh – am glad you found it helpful.
Trading contests are to normal trading what poker tournaments are to cash games. I’m not a Nial fan, but this is like criticizing a cash-game poker pro for using different strategies in a rapid-increase tournament than he does in regular cash games. Different formats require different goals and different strategies.
Hello TheMazz – you seem to be missing the point here, and from the video.The critique isn’t from adjusting one’s methods a bit to win the competition. Nobody is disputing the fact you’d likely have to make ‘some’ adjustments, particularly in position sizing and risk mgmt.
However, trading without stop losses, take profits, having inverted risk to reward ratios, are not something you’d need to (or should do) to win a competition.
On top of that, to say you ‘only traded a handful of times’ when you traded 35 times is a fabrication and misrepresentation.
It’s the same for Nial Fuller stating ‘I used sophisticated money management’ when quite the opposite was true.
It’s the same for saying “I’m not a day trader” when over half of Nial Fuller’s trades were closed within a day, let alone half of them being within 12 hrs.
So while what you’re saying is accurate (in a limited sense), you’re completely missing the key points of the video.
I did some more research on this. It looks like Nial entered the contest using a pseudonym and then asked that his identity be revealed after he won. For all I know he had a dozen other entries too. To me, this is the most important fact of all – he entered the contest anonymously so he wouldn’t be embarrassed by the blowouts and then gambled away. Just a cheap marketing stunt is all. If he was in the habit of publicly entering contests I would view it differently, but anyone can enter contests anonymously, blow up accounts using high risk tactics, and then claim victory when one of the gambles pays off. This tactic could also be used to sell roulette and craps systems LOL.
Hello Mazz,
Yeah, I thought it was a little ‘convenient’ he a) used a pseudonym, and b) didn’t mention anything about it till after the contest.
I can see how maybe using his name or announcing it could be a distraction. But not mentioning it always leaves him an ‘out’, while mentioning it gives him no outs.
The thing is, if he announced it – and won, it would have given him so much more cred. But he didn’t choose that path.
One other point about this video has to do with AxiTrader – how crazy is it to invest $1M and have someone who traded like this manage their funds.
Ridiculous and really shows a lot about AxiTrader IMO
Oh wow this information is really shocking – Do you think this invalidates all the things nial fuller teaches. Clearly we can see that he himself isn’t using what he teaches and the fact he used a fake name makes it even worse But My question is, Is price action the way Nial Fuller teaches it a bad way of trading?
My initial reaction when I saw the title of your video was negative. I thought why is Chris is engaging in mud slinging. But after watching this, I will say “Thanks Chris”. You have done a great service to the trading community, done a huge favor to budding traders who might be looking for guidance. Thank you again.
Hello Ravi – yeah, I can understand the initial reaction.
I think what’s key here is you proceeded with an open mind, and realized there is some decent points and benefits to what’s being discussed in the video.
I’m glad you found the video helpful for the trading community (which definitely could use some work/adjustments).
Also newer traders who are looking for guidance can now have a more clear picture to work with when looking at Nial for guidance.
So much appreciated for sharing your thoughts.
Kind Regards,
Chris
Noted your clarifications…wish you success and happiness in your endeavours….Wish Mr Nial same too, and more discipline in his trading endeavours….
Chris,
Why not trade a separate account of say starting balance of $10000 over a few months and show us your consistency and good risk management in this account. You’ve shown us how not to do it, now show us how it should be done. This will provide an instructive example over a good sample size without revealing your personal finances.
My one question to these legitimate FX trading educators (yes I believe there are legit FX trading educators out there and they’re not all scammers) is that if they have the skills, if they what it takes to make it in this business why is it that they have to sell courses or charge a fee for what they teach? Just my 2 cents. They say they will help you achieve consistency and profitability. If you ask me helping doesn’t ask for anything in return. I would call it “a service to help you succeed in trading”. Anyway that’s just the one question that boggles my mind all the time when I hear of FX trading educators. Again just my 2 cents.
Hello Marc,
I’ll give you a few reasons.
1) It also takes a lot of time and effort to help people and teach them. My expenses for this work is way more than you think. Should I just shell it out for free? Do you work your job for free?
No, I’m guessing not. It’s the same here.
Do you ask a great dentist to do their work for free?
No, I’m guessing not. It’s the same here.
2) People of skill get paid for what they do, and they should. Ever see the ‘masterclass’ series online? Guess what? They’re getting paid for it. And these are some of the wealthiest people in their field.
3) Multiple sources of income.
4) I don’t ‘have’ to…I ‘choose’ to. There’s a difference.
Food for thought.
Kind Regards,
Chris
Thanks Chris well said. Pardon me for asking that question but I’m really not the only one who’s asking that question. Your answer should go out to them as well and maybe they’ll finally understand but you really don’t have anything to prove to them. They even have this question of where do you make more, trading or selling courses? But you don’t need to answer it. Thanks again Chris. Now I’d like to take this as an opportunity to have a conversation with you and learn more from a pro. Something is telling me your a nice person just can’t explain what it is. Here I go. You mentioned that inverse RR ratio is a big no-no in setting SL and TP but there is a rule that says to put your SL and TP on the nearest high/low. With this being said RR ratio will not be equal and may even be inverse. I’ve been demo trading for the past two years and there have many instances where I’ve had an inverse RR ratio where my SL is bigger than my TP. But since I can’t be on my monitor all the time I had to leave the trade and when I got back it hit my TP. The reason for setting TP and SL on last high/low is so that your trade can survive and increase the probability of winning instead of getting your SL hit and then price went back to the intended direction and would’ve had your TP hit. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this Chris. Looking forward to your reply. Thanks.
Nial Fooler
You win!
Very interesting, i’ve come so close to sign up for his PAT course. Time to unsubscribe and stop the spam and temptation.
Hello Craig – yeah I’m guessing many have considered it. But after watching this video, I can’t see how they’d want to join if they ask him the same questions I do in the video.
Thank you for your great enlightning about this person
Like for taking the time to record this video. With such risks, professional traders do not trade.
I am glad I came across your video. From 16 minutes on I had heard enough. I thought I was watching a horror video. He may have a future career in politics or as a magician, great misdirection and misleading the masses. Harsh? well at 53 I am tired of the Flim Flams of this world. Does the concept of Integrity in business exist anymore????
I think one day it will come out how much Nial has used clever marketing and misdirection to misrepresent himself. Time will tell…but I think it’s coming sooner than later.
Wow. Just came across this video… I subscribed to Fuller’s site a while back, and it became clear to me at one point that there aren’t any members on the forums who seem to be successful after taking his course. And I began to wonder if he did in fact trade how he teaches. After this competition, I couldn’t imagine how he could possibly have gained so much by trading what he teaches in his course. This video confirms what I suspected.
Hello Alurone1 – yes, many of Nial Fuller’s Price Action Course Members have said the same complaint to me, that nobody in his course has been able to demonstrate they make money trading. And the fact that Nial is happy to provide 6 weeks of trading as ‘evidence’ he knows how to trade, but cannot provide a single year’s audited results speaks volumes. You as a student of Nial Fuller’s course and stating this just ‘confirms’ (wink*) what many of his students have said to me.
I see your points bro… Man’s gotta practice what he preaches.
Chris , Thank you so much for your effort, time, and passion for wanting to educate professionaly and ethical. I wish all trading educators take the time to be honest and transparent on what they teach. Trading is a wonderful industry, and time and time again, we here bad stories of traders being taking advantage of due to trading educators delivering false promises. From your videos, I see you may be different educator and trader.
Here are my thoughts regading on Nial Fuller trading compeition as it relates to his teaching online:
1. Is Nial using this compeitioin winning and trading style to gain new traders to take his course?
2. Is Nial stating that he traded outside of what he teaches for this compeition? If yes, then I can understand the trades. But if No, he did not state to students or the people who view his trading education that he will be breaking the rules and style that he teaches, then that is a problem. I have read Nial free trading educational and it’s fair teaching.
I like that you teach trading on all timeframes and not scare away from day trading like Nial.
The bottom line is Nial did not trade how he teaches. And this is not good as I was considering his course, however I am not considering his course anymore.